Camille: Hello, Jim.
Jim: Hi, Camille.
Camille: Welcome back to the pod.
Jim: I am so glad to be here.
Camille: So listener, I have invited Jim to return to the pod with me because I wanted to walk people through the process of taking these big annual goals and how do I make them actionable. And this is one of the biggest challenges that my clients have. We don't have any problem coming up with really big cool ideas.
Camille: How many big cool ideas have we ever talked about over time?
Jim: Lots,
Camille: like a million.
Camille: Yeah. And
Camille: we still do, but then when you grab onto that one that you're like, I really need this one to happen this year. Being able to break it down into some reasonable plan that you can execute, it is work. And it's a challenge.
Camille: And it is a step that we often skip because either we don't know how to do it or we don't really feel like we have the time or we're just anxious to get to work. So we just start pedaling fast, trying to, to make the work happen. So I wanna walk people through this process of what do I do now that I have my big annual goal set?
Camille: And I thought you would be the perfect person to do this with Jim.
Camille: Welcome to The Belief Shift. The show that explores. What you really need to know about building a successful small business.
Camille: I'm your host, Camille Rapacz: small business coach and consultant who spent too much of her career working in corporate business performance.
George: And I'm George Drapeau: your co-host and her brother. I'm a leader in the tech world bringing my corporate perspective, but mostly my curiosity.
Camille: Together, we're exploring beliefs about success and how to achieve it. But mostly we're bringing practical solutions so you and your business can thrive.
Camille: so Jim and I have worked together for a while now. Jim's been one of my best favorite coaching clients. I know, big Heart.
Camille: So I know what his business plan looks like. He was in the planning workshop I talked about a couple episodes ago.
Camille: We did this work together and I know where he is at. He's at the spot of, I've had my big goals, but I still have to turn them into a real actionable work. And I'm talking about on a daily basis, like what am I doing every day to make my big goals happen? Because every day I'm making my business run. But am I also working on that one big goal That's really important.
Camille: So I thought today I would talk through the process and then we could use one of your goals, Jim, as an example, to help people kind of understand how this works. And also you're really great at calling out where you're not understanding the process or you're feeling stuck or you're like, oh yeah, I forgot to think about, and that'll help everybody else kind of see it's a little bit of the messiness of this process.
Camille: I'm gonna talk about it like it's this clean, simple, linear thing and it's not, there's some messiness in there. Yeah.
Jim: You'll all get a little insight into live coaching. What is it like when Camille's actually coaching Jim? It's pretty awesome.
Camille: It is pretty awesome. Again, also, cuz we've been doing this for a while, so caveat to those of you listening in.
Camille: We do have a level of connecting and talking about this work, cuz we've worked together long enough. That may not be true for every one of my coaching clients, but this is what I aspire to get to, is to get to know my clients well enough where it gets faster and the conversation gets really, really crisp and clear.
Camille: So hopefully it'll be a good example for people.
Camille: And yes, it's true.
Camille: No George today.
Camille: Sorry folks, if you're missing George, but Jim and I are dropping this episode recording into the middle of the week and, you know, George has a day job, so he was kind of busy doing that, so I decided to let him have his day job and Jim and I would just do this during the week.
Jim: I miss you George.
Camille: He's gonna be sad that he missed this. He's gonna listen to it and be like, dang it. But he can only be in one place at one time. He can't be in all the places. Yeah. He hasn't yet figured out how to clone himself so well.
Jim: I thought those Silicon Valley geniuses like your brother we're working on that.
Jim: Is that his, oh, Is that his
Jim: secret job?
Camille: You know, I could see him do it. If anybody can figure it out, it's George.
Camille: Okay. So here we are. You've got your big vision for your business. I'm gonna setting the stage, got your big vision for your business, and you've got these big dreamy, like five year vision.
Camille: And then you just went through the process of what are my annual goals? The goals are clear and you even set your revenue target. So you know this is what I want, this is how much more I wanna make this year. And now what? Well, the next step is you've gotta turn that plan into some actions.
Camille: And now they're just ideas and numbers on paper. They're really cool ideas and they're really great numbers on paper, but they're not actual steps to take. So how do I do that?
Camille: How do I get from the big, or keep breaking this down ? So I call this the goals cascade process of taking something from this really big goal.
Camille: You just keep kind of cascading down until it gets smaller and smaller and smaller until it becomes a task. It's no longer a goal, this is actual work to do. So that's what we're gonna really talk about.
Camille: But first I wanna call out, I think I've said this before, but I wanna bring people back to this distinction that I like to make between a breakthrough goal and a stability goal.
Camille: It's important to recognize that most of your business is being run off of what I call a stability goal. This is where we talk about KPIs or key performance indicators. This is where you're measuring, are my customer service numbers good? Is my marketing going well?
Camille: Are my sales numbers at the level? Or for some people it's their hiring processes. So whatever is just keeping your business. And revenue is also in there. Is am I, am I generating revenue? Am I managing expenses? So there's just these basic business numbers that you're constantly have to just watch and maintain, and that's how you gauge whether your business is performing well or not.
Camille: So very important and everybody should have goals around all those basic things. And for small businesses, just pick a few. Cuz if you pick too many, it's too much to track. But I'm not gonna spend a ton of time just going into that level of the stability goals. Maybe that's another episode, but you need to have those.
Camille: I'm really focused more today on the breakthrough goals. We will touch on the cascade process for stability goals, but I really wanna talk about the breakthrough goals cuz they are the ones that are harder to do. It's pretty easy to just stay on top of the day-to-day. I gotta do my X number of Instagram posts this week and whatever you're doing on a regular basis.
Camille: Once you're in it, it's a process that you're just running. But the breakthrough goal represents something that is different, new, requires another level of energy, could easily be skipped, it easily gets deprioritized because you're busy running the business.
Camille: And this is that work where, oh, I have to do something to advance my business in working on the business. Whether that's launching a new program, redesigning an internal business process could also be a major breakthrough for you. So it doesn't always have to be about the customer. It could be internal to you.
Camille: Maybe you're opening a new location. Maybe you're rebranding your business. Like any of these things could be really big breakthrough work that's work on top of the regular everyday work. So I call it breakthrough because you do have to break through the every day and really put some energy into that.
Camille: So that's mostly we're gonna talk about in this whole goals cascade process.
Camille: So Jim, you went through this whole process and I'm curious, have you identified what your breakthrough annual goal is for your business? Yes. And you don't have to share numbers or anything like that. Just give us the generals of what you're trying to do from your breakthrough goal.
Jim: For me, the breakthrough is really around the classes. So a little bit about my business. Yes. Give us your, just remind people is I am a professional palm reader, mystic and and purveyor of joy.
Jim: So I help people in the world find their joy and I do that through looking at their palms and doing tarot readings. I do metaphysical coaching and things like that. I kind of merge the metaphysical and mystical with the practical and scientific and bring that out in the effort to find our joy in the world.
Jim: I have a few things that I offer, which is readings. So I do palm readings and tarot readings at both events and for private people. I do coaching. So I have coaching offerings for people and I do speaking across the nation. And potentially I might have an opportunity to do one internationally also.
Jim: And I have classes, so I teach courses. Some of those are done at speaking gigs, but I also have courses and I've done some courses online. My breakthrough goal is really around expanding the courses in a more thoughtful and consistent way. And so that's my big breakthrough goal is around my courses.
Camille: I love it. Love it, love it, love it.
Camille: So the other thing that I was thinking as you were describing this that I love about you being the one I'm doing this example with is I, I just love the, the beautiful sort of mystical concept of your business. And that still you're like, but business is business and I still have to do all these fundamental things.
Camille: Like I'm still gonna get into the basic fundamentals of business. So I love that you're so practical from that side of the fence. And then your whole business just represents this beautiful, mystical and joyful work. And the contrast of that. And I think some people tend to hesitate to lean into this maybe by the book formal business planning, but it is so important for you to be able to be even more the purveyor of joy.
Jim: Yeah. I really think about the metaphor I like to use is a vine grows really well when it's on a lattice, and that lattice work can sometimes be very tight and, you know have small little openings and sometimes it needs to be very loose with large openings depending on the type of vine. But, Designing that lattice, that framework upon which the vine grows is important in understanding and having that discernment.
Jim: But that's what allows all those flowers and all the, you know, fruit and the, and the production of that vine to grow. And I, I think that is what I think about with me. Like, if you want that vine to be the most joyful and the most prolific and the most beautiful, design a framework that is appropriate, you know, to who and what you are.
Jim: And perhaps one day it'll be strong enough to hold itself up, but you know, not all vines are that way. They need a structure. So I really love that there's a structure here that helps me blossom and be my best.
Jim: Oh my gosh. I am completely stealing this as a way to steal it. Describe it. That was such a great way to describe this.
Jim: Thank you for that. Beautiful. And also a beautiful way to describe it. Because that is what we're trying to do is give people this beautiful, I like the lattice. I always say foundation, but I like that the lattice because it's about upward movement. Yeah. And that there's still creativity in that.
Jim: That's the other thing I think people miss, is it's not trying to take away from your creativity by, you know, telling you to make a plan. It's creating the space for that creativity to really blossom and come forward. Mm-hmm. So, thank you. Mm-hmm. that's lovely.
Jim: So. I know you went through the workshop, so you've got your big goal set which meant, you know, you'd gone through the process of identifying what they all, I know you have stability goals too.
Jim: So if we have time, we'll talk about those as well. The next step in this was to look at your big breakthrough goals. So yours are about taking your, you have, I know you have three classes and you're really gonna what? Like double your revenue on them, something you read
Jim: in that range. Well, let's just make up some numbers for easy math.
Jim: Okay. My real numbers. Make math really difficult. Yeah, because let's use dumb numbers, they're kind of exacting. So we'll use numbers that are easy to multiply. So let's just say that so I have my intro to palmistry, intermediate palmistry and Advanced palmistry. And those, you know, are the three courses that I wanna offer.
Jim: And having those being offered in regular cadence to then end up with you know, what number should I make up that's easy to multiply, let's just go big, a hundred thousand dollars, let's just say that that represents, I wish a hundred thousand dollars worth of revenue this year.
Jim: Wouldn't that be awesome? Yeah. So if we were doing that we should then figure out like, gosh, how many Intro to palmistry courses do I need people to sign up for? How many intermediate palmistry courses do I need to people to sign up for? How many advanced palmistrys and what should they be priced at?
Jim: But there's also this other side that I kind of struggle with, which is like, how much is it worth? And what does it mean I need to build it to be? And this is where like, it isn't all just like hard numbers. And it's also me having imposter syndrome and feeling like, will people pay that much for this course?
Jim: Or then it's also like, how am I gonna get 35 people to sign up for this course? Do I even know that many people that want it? And oh my gosh. Like anyone who's out there. Yes. And even though people are like, gosh, Jim, you're the most amazing palm reader in the world. How easy is that to sort of dismiss .
Jim: And, and be, you know, in our own, you know, insecurities about, so these are the, it's not just that we're breaking through. Numbers are breaking through things I've never, that I haven't really pushed into before in the business monetarily or the cadence or the number of times I'm doing it or writing this thing that I haven't written before.
Jim: I'm also breaking through the psychology of, golly, I'm pushing myself up against my worth and my value and all these other things. So there's two things going on at the same time. So when you say breakthrough, I'm also breaking down at times and having to break through that .
Camille: Well, you describing all of that is so useful because one of the things that I think gets missed when I walk, and you know this well cuz we've done this process before, but when I walk people through this process, one of the reasons we do it is to actually combat.
Camille: Those more, you know, getting inside our own head and letting that keep us from actually figuring out the next steps to take. So part of this process is to say, yeah, but the, you're not doing anything because you're so hung up on what should I charge or what's it gonna, you know, you, you're getting letting that imposter syndrome sort of keep you from doing any of this work.
Camille: So we're gonna walk through these steps and one of the things that I want people to recognize is how this looks and sounds like a linear process, but it's not necessarily there are steps to take, but you will jump up and down in this process because that's just the nature of how planning works.
Camille: Mm-hmm. , it seems, and, and you'll feel like what I wanna just know, do step one, two, and three, and I can give, I'm gonna give you those steps, but you might move up and down them before you really get this . So, Jim's already got some pieces of this, and we're gonna be trying to fill in the gaps. So in tackling this with you, Jim, the first thing that we talk about doing is actually just doing that really big picture annual perspective.
Camille: So you might remember, we look at all 12 months and the first thing I want people to do is, so you, you have these big goals, like you're all like, oh my gosh, how am I gonna make all these, you know, courses happen and get to my, you know, revenue goals for them. But you really first have to back up and say, what have I already committed to this year?
Camille: So have you done this process yet where you looked at your 12 year calendar and
Jim: filled in the big buckets? Yes. So I started doing that and here I am in New Orleans for this month for Mardi Gras working. And I've got That's on your calendar? Yep. I've got talks scheduled for March and May and September.
Jim: So those are on my calendar. I've got a few other events that are in there. So I've got my calendar already peppered with things where Jimmy's busy.
Camille: Yes, you are a really good example for this because I know you, you do a lot of speaking events and going to, you know, conferences and things. So you already have a busy travel schedule, so this is why it it, but even if you don't, so anybody listening who goes like, oh, I don't need to do this step cuz I'm not very busy, you still need to do this because at the very least you should block off time for yourself.
Camille: So there should also be in there. Mm-hmm. , I am gonna take a vacation and even if you don't know exactly when, but sometime in July or August, I'm gonna take a week off for this and I'm gonna take the last two weeks of the year off for the holidays or whatever those things are. These are really important things to block out in your calendar so you can see where th this is basically to say, This is where you're gonna have less time to work on this goal than other times because you have these other commitments.
Camille: And I want people to work around that because when we don't, we set ourselves up for failure. Yeah. I
Jim: mean, certainly Thanksgiving, holidays, Halloween. And I also think about, I'll have a lot less time to do things during my busy season of the business. Yes. Certainly around the holidays, I'm very busy with events, people hiring me for that.
Jim: So it's also the, like running the business is busy at those times. So can I really offer a class or do my launch of a class in December? Mm-hmm. No, because yeah, I'm making money doing other things.
Camille: It also probably means that, especially so as a solo printer, you really only wanna promote one thing at a time, or you're just confusing your audience.
Camille: Unless you're saying, I'm gonna pro promote this one thing, that then leads them to the next thing, which you definitely have that opportunity to do. If you're promoting two things at once, it can be very confusing for your audience. So even just from that perspective, it's hard for you, but it's also hard for your customer.
Camille: Because they're like, wait, what am I doing? But if there's just one thing, yes or no, it's easier for them to decide.
Jim: I've really thought about that. I've really thought about, you know, one offer. This is the thing I'm selling. This is the thing I'm doing.
Jim: When I've done, hey, this or this, or this. Then I saw nothing. Yes. Cuz everyone is just deer in headlights.
Camille: Yes, absolutely. This is the why we start with this annual picture of what does that all look like if you already have pre-planned either launches or you know what, it doesn't have to be a launch. It could just be, this is my standard promotional thing that happens this time of year because I have a seasonal business.
Camille: Those are the things you wanna put in this annual calendar. And then you gotta look at it and go, okay, well then where am I doing these classes? Where do they fit in? So that's step one is just figuring out where do they go? Because this will start to tell you specifically, Jim, well how many intro Tory versus intermediate versus advanced, how many can I do this year?
Camille: And that leads back to the numbers. Of what if you're like, I can only do one of each this year, cuz those are the only time slots I've got that changes the number of people you're trying to get into that course versus if I can do two a year.
Jim: Yeah. So I did that and what I found was I have three speaking engagements and after each of those big conferences that register a few hundred.
Jim: One of 'em is about a thousand people. That is my opportunity to offer a QR code and a email signup. Perfect. And I can tag those people with, Hey, they attended this conference and offer them a special little discount and an incentive to register immediately for Intro to Palmistry. So I'm going to parlay and jump off of my speaking engagement to sell Intro to Palmistry after those events .To my entire email list, but also to the people who just signed up.
Jim: So that, that is how I'm utilizing a low-paying speaking gig leveraging that into the intro to palmistry low priced entry offer. I'm utilizing those speaking engagements and timing these four intro to palm courses with those speaking engagements that are kind of evenly paced out through the year.
Jim: So that was one of the cool things to also find is not just the times when I had to block myself and say I can't, but also to say strategically, ooh. These are things I didn't think about when I can and have my launch be associated with, oh, I didn't think about how this is an opportunity for me to launch Intro to Palmistry.
Jim: The more people that take Intro to Palmistry the more people that I have to market and to offer intermediate palmistry because it's a prerequisite. I'm not gonna offer that to my entire email list or my Instagram, only to people who've already taken Intro. And I'm gonna offer advanced only to the people who've taken intermediate.
Jim: So this is where that those two intermediate and and advanced aren't out there to the world. They're just to the people on my email list who've purchased that. So this ends up also making it a lot easier for my customers because I'm only ever promoting Intro publicly.
Camille: Okay. So you've used that annual perspective to actually really figure out for you, where do my course launches fit strategically in your whole marketing and networking that you've already got set.
Camille: So that's perfect. So you know where they fit. So from a sort of breakthrough goal perspective your intro to palmistry you already do and your intermediate, so is it the advanced that's really breakthrough component of all of this.
Jim: The intermediate has to be improved. And then advanced palmistry needs to be built. Though I have some really good ideas already on what that is. And I'm just gonna do that once this year anyway. And I think later in the year, once I have enough sort of audience built up and intermediate, I'm just gonna do twice.
Jim: I already have an audience for intermediate, so I can improve it, launch it once, and then I'm gonna launch it again. So I have those already sort of strategically placed to take advantage of the building of the audience for.
Camille: Okay, so I'm gonna say that your breakthrough within your breakthrough is actually getting the advanced course out.
Camille: Yeah. Because you've done intro before. That's not new. No. You're just trying to do it more. Yeah. Intermediate, you might make some improvements, but even if you didn't, you've done it before. You could do it again. Sure. So it's really, I've gotta get one time, I've gotta get the advanced course to happen.
Camille: And that's really your new big breakthrough this year. True. True. Okay. The breakthrough of the breakthroughs.
Camille: I like it. So all of this is making sense to me and how you have it all organized. I love how you have it all logically and strategically making sense.
Camille: So your biggest challenge is gonna be, I already have all sorts of work laid out this year. When in the heck, and how in the heck, am I gonna get advanced palmistry course? And I know it's bigger. And even if it's not, It's, it's work to put these things together and, you know, get all the materials and the program.
Camille: There's a lot of work for you to do in here. So let's use this as an example, as we talk about the goals cascade process and how you're gonna break this down.
Jim: Wait. This is where it's just magic and it just happens by itself. This is where most of the time people stop and they say, I did my annual goals.
Jim: And then wonder why it didn't just happen.
Camille: Yeah. Well, you have a date too. When are you planning to do your Advanced Palmistry course?
Jim: You know, sometime, I think later in the year, later it'll just happen.
Camille: Uhhuh. I see.
Jim: Have you heard this before? Hmm.
Camille: Never.
Jim: Oh yeah, I did this last year, and it didn't work.
Jim: That's why it didn't work.
Camille: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, I think part of it is when you just look at it, you're like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do that class. And I remember one of the conversations we've had about this before. So maybe we can admit to the audience, Jim has had this goal in the past. I admit it. Admit it. And the reason.
Jim: Head hung low, head hung low.
Camille: Let's talk about why your goal didn't happen. When I looked at it, you started to put a plan together, but it was like you were letting some of that mental stuff get in your way. You were letting some of that imposter syndrome and overthinking of it get in your way. But also we really hadn't broken it down cuz we weren't in active coaching at that time.
Camille: You sort of set your plan basically at this level and you had some activities to do and then you were on your own. We talked about you didn't have accountability to it. You were super busy as just being a business owner. You had plenty of work to do. So fitting it in wasn't that easy anymore.
Camille: And I think you had thought it would be and didn't know you would be as busy as you were, which was a good thing. Like busy is good, but you were like, oh shoot, now that's getting in the way of me doing the thing I wanna do. And you didn't have the tasks small enough that you could just chip away at it to make it happen over time.
Camille: So we just can get there.
Jim: There were two other things too. Camille has talked on this podcast before about the terrible but very tempting influence of online. Make a million dollars put in your six figure plan with these six steps. And the quick fix or the online internet marketers that say you need a five figure product.
Jim: I didn't fall victim as far as paying someone, but I fell into that trap of thinking if I have a five figure product, that's what I need to build. And so I thought, oh, I need to build a $10,000 program. And that was part of my problem also thinking that I needed to build a five figure program.
Jim: And that itself as a breakthrough was so big and so overwhelming and was just too much for me to take on. And it was, I'm not ready for that. I'm not ready to offer a five figure program out there in the world. I just need to make it accessible to people who are the real people. I just need to be me.
Jim: And having three smaller programs that are really at my speed, that is the level for me. And so this also gets to when I first was doing the retreat that Camille talked about, which I highly recommend whether you're gonna do it virtually or whether you're gonna show up in Seattle area and or wherever she has it in the future and fly there.
Jim: Either way, do it. Because the first thing I'm like, this is gonna be my quarter of a million dollar year or whatever the number is. And I realized, wait a minute, how about a 20% increase? That was a huge breakthrough in thinking for me because it's not that it's easier, it's less overwhelming.
Jim: It's not gonna bring up something that is so unreasonable that you just end up like paralyzed sitting in the corner scrolling TikTok all day.
Jim: This is what I think is also really important is I fell into that thinking of like makeup five figure program and then I fell into that for too long.
Jim: So there was other things that were going on as well. So I think that's important is this smaller advanced palmistry is just a little advanced palmistry class that's all. Way better.
Camille: And in your head it's, that's all. But to everyone else, it's gonna be, this is amazing. So you are setting this arbitrary bar.
Camille: And I love that you say I'm listening to all this noise out there for small business owners and what I should be doing, and I'm kind of getting caught up in it. Which also means like, whenever we're like, yeah, you should just have a, you know, a five figure product or service, it's also just like, well wait, do my customers, my clients even want that?
Camille: Am I even building a customer base that would spend that? So you can't build a product and then market to people who don't even have that kind of money. Much less want to spend that kind of money. Like, those things have to match up too. So this gets back to the having a whole, a very complete business model that addresses not just how much money you want to make, but connects that all the way back to what am I offering to customers?
Camille: What do they want from me? How much are they willing to spend? What is, you know, reasonable in all of this? So even though you might want to make $10,000 off of. You know, X product or service, it kind of doesn't matter if nobody thinks it's worth that. Exactly. It's like I say, well we can dream up all the ideas we want on paper, but the reality is doing it is a whole other thing.
Camille: Yep. And doing it means knowing what my customers actually want and need. So, exactly. I love that you're so tuned into that now in terms of, I know what advanced palmistry, what people would benefit from what that could look like. And you know, it could grow into a $10,000 program someday, but it doesn't have to and it obviously doesn't have to start there.
Camille: Like that's one of the most important things is you just have to start where you can start. And I do remember us having those conversations about, just don't worry, especially the first time you're putting something out there, worry less about how much money you make off of it and focus more on, did I build it ? Is it helping people the way I want it to? Is my marketing good? Like get all the fundamentals the first time around and then the people will come and you can improve on that. You'll learn and then improve on it. But the first time around, we're all gonna make a bunch of mistakes.
Camille: Yep. And you just need to do that. So you are now in a position of this year I need to learn how to do advanced palmistry. Well, that's my main goal. And we've talked about this too, ? Like just make that the goal to do it and learn. So next year you can have a really great revenue target. Not that you shouldn't have one this year, but your primary focus is I gotta just do one so I get good at it.
Camille: That's right. And now it's all I know all the ideas for it are in your head. Like, you don't have to create this from nothing. It's all in there. It just hasn't been made tangible and real.
Camille: That's what happens next.
Jim: Yeah. And this is what is the funnest part?
Jim: What comes next is, the difference is now that I have this laid out, like, oh, intro to palmistry, intermediate palmistry, advanced palmistry. Doing the math to figure out how many intros, how many intermediates, how many advanced do I need to sell? How many times a year? And actually multiplying that out to say, how does that meet with my annual goal?
Jim: And then, oh, I have actual numbers. Oh my gosh. And I know when I'm gonna do them. This is really cool. Now we can talk about what You talk about the cascade.
Camille: I do. Yep. Now we gotta talk about how we do it. We'll talk about the goals cascade process for your breakthrough goal first.
Camille: And then there is also a way, just as you were describing, there is also cascading of your revenue. because you can't just have a revenue goal. I should also know what's my target this month, ? Mm-hmm. And then also with your stability goals. So maybe I have some customer service rating that I'm trying to achieve.
Camille: I should be watching that number monthly, not just wait till the end of the year. And this is where we talk about having what they call leading versus lagging indicators. So lagging indicators are, these are my outcomes that I'm trying to achieve. So an annual revenue goal is a lagging indicator by the time I know if I made that goal, it's too late to change anything about it.
Camille: But a leading indicator it's measuring something that tells me whether I'm on track or not. And it gives me a chance to adjust as I go throughout the year. So just as you're thinking about that, you need both of those. But not to get too geeky on the metrics. Let's talk about this, how you cascade these goals down.
Camille: So just taking your big goal, The first thing that I typically have people do when they have a big goal like that is really just do that first brainstorm of all the work that goes into it. So for you, Jim, it's, I need to launch the new Advanced Palmistry course, and I need to just put down all the stuff I know, and I know you've done this before where you're just saying, so gimme some examples of anything you can think of that you have to do to make this course work.
Jim: Okay. I have to outline the course. I want to do the I love Mira Khan's book all about like, what are the marketing messages around who is it for? Who's the audience?
Jim: What's the message? What is going to get them in the mode to understand the benefits of it, why they would wanna buy it, why they wanna sell it and get those messages And that sort of marketing sequence built. I'd want to, and, and, and the outline in really getting like what the advanced course is really going to cover and how it's gonna serve them is fundamental to then being able to tell that story and tell those marketing messages.
Jim: Schedule the launch sequence and when it's gonna open, when it's gonna close. Writing all the emails that will go out to the audience that I have tagged in my email, in my c r m, my email program. Building the slides setting up the product in my system. Setting up the email sequence for people after they purchase.
Jim: Creating the class environment, buying a new shirt to look fabulous when I'm, you know, presenting .
Camille: Yeah. So there's a lot of steps even within those steps that you just laid out. You say writing the emails and it's like, there's a lot of emails to write and then schedule and set up. You say we're reading the slides, ?
Camille: They have to be, there's a lot of, yeah. Yeah. There's a whole series of stuff in there. So just laying all that out, then you can start to look at maybe there's some major milestones in here. Like, well, of course I have to start with my outline. So when you look at what's obvious, of course I have to start with my outline and I need to know what I'm actually gonna offer people before I can start writing the marketing materials around it.
Camille: And those things though, I like that you kind of put those together because when we think about marketing, good marketing actually starts with a good product or service. Having good marketing and then not having a great thing to market is bad. So it starts with that and you connecting those two is important.
Camille: But just having all those milestones or those activities down, that's just giving you the big picture visual. Like, here's a bunch of stuff I've gotta do, but it's still not really in an order or sorted. It still could look overwhelming. You're like, that's a lot of work. When am I gonna do all of that?
Camille: So that's where we get into level one of cascading your goals down, which is to start with just quarterly objectives. So the goal is sort of the big you know, that's the big thing out there of I'm wanna launch this new advanced promise recourse, and maybe you have a sense of, and I'd like to get X number of people in it.
Camille: That's a pretty big goal. Now, objectives start to get more actionable. So this is more near term. And so that's why we start at this quarterly level. So as you look at all of that, you wanna look at, what's a measurable action that you can take that helps support you achieving that overall goal.
Camille: So it's something that's more tangible. Ideally, when you're setting your goal or you're thinking about this, you can use the smart goal framework to make sure mm-hmm. , you're getting specific enough. So specific, measurable, actionable, relevant, and time bound is the smart goal format. But really this is about, I need to define a very specific, like, here's my objective for this quarter that assures I will be on track to meet my big long-term goal.
Camille: So as you think about that, Jim, for your course, what would you want your first, and it doesn't have to just be this one objective, you might have a couple, but often I like to get people to really focus on one objective with maybe a few things that they're gonna measure within it. So what do you think about when you think about your first quarter objective?
Jim: Yeah, I mean, and what's interesting is because the Advanced palmistry is going to be a Q4 launch I think about like, what does that mean for q1? And I might not have a goal for that in q1, but I certainly have one for q2. So I do think about like, what quarter will I start doing something for that in, but when I'm going to first do something, which is probably q2 I think it's going to be review the outline for Intro and Intermediate so that Advanced palmistry is a continuation and has flow, you know, there's a continuity between the three courses.
Jim: And then I think outlining Advanced palmistry is a goal for a quarter. And I think also doing a general sort of wire frame of like what are all the things like we just did really quickly, but actually thoughtfully going through like what are all the things I need to do for a launch and for like actually having advanced palmistry work and then having like my coach or someone else who's familiar, like you running it by you and being like, did I get everything you've done a launch am I missing something?
Jim: And having someone other eyes on it and sort of getting that reviewed. That would be appropriate for like a Q2 goal to get that set. Along with everything else I'm doing to run the biz. Yeah. So especially if it's scheduled out far enough and maybe that could even be Q1 cuz it's far enough out.
Camille: Yeah. I think about that and I think about what's your most important work to do, which I like that you're thinking, I'm gonna, you know, sort of lay this plan out. Certainly if you have the ability and the know-how to create a project plan, do that and do that first.
Camille: Which is lay out, here's all the work I have to do. I think it's gonna happen generally in this sequence. And then that can help to inform what am I gonna work on each quarter. Now if you don't know how to do that, well then just go quarter by quarter. Just say, I'm just gonna take what I think is I can get done in this first quarter, and that tho that's gonna be my objective or my set of objectives.
Camille: And some of what you talked about was a little bit just a task to do, but some of it was you could group together into an objective. So for example, when you talk about I need to get My whole outline for my program set. Well, one of the tasks to get there starts with, I need to review the outlines of my current courses in order for that outline to be accurate.
Camille: So that was sort of a task that fits and meets the objective of I need my outline to be complete.
Camille: Got it. That's great. That's why I say like list them all out and then start putting them together. Well actually this one is in order to do that and this one's to do that, which helps you hone in on, these are my key objectives this quarter, but it is helping us identify even smaller tasks that you can define.
Jim: Which is why doing them on sticky notes and being able to then nest them underneath each other is so useful.
Camille: that's so true. You are spot on. This is one of the reasons I love Post-Its as a planning tool because you just start putting all the stuff up and then you start arranging them into, oh, all of these kind of grouped together in this work and this group's together here.
Camille: And it's a great way to make a plan without trying to be nerdy and do it in, you know, Excel or you know, air Table. Like I like to do , so Post-its for the win . So getting everything organized and looking at what's reasonable , what am I gonna do in the first quarter that I'm working? I, and I love that you were like my first quarter of working in the school might not be until q2.
Camille: Also totally fair everybody. If that's what works for you, cuz your Q1 is already full. That's why we did the monthly perspective. You're like, well when can I actually work on this? Oh, Q2 is gonna be my time to do this set amount of work. What it should also do is help you say, if I do that in q2, what does that mean is left in q3. If I want my launch to happen in q4?
Camille: Can I do that? Do I need to juh this plan a little bit? Do I maybe need to reduce the scope of what I want to do? So all of those things, that's why this isn't a linear process, cuz as you go through this, you'll be like, oh wait a minute.
Camille: I don't know if I can make that happen. Alright, I need to adjust something. What I don't want you to do is give up on the actual goal. I just want you to think about that strategy or how you're gonna get there, and maybe that needs to change a little bit.
Camille: So that's what's most important.
And this seems like a great place for us to stop for the day because Jim and I went on for quite some time about the goals cascade process, and it seemed like it was just a bit long for a single episode. So you can catch the end of our conversation next week, where I help Jim finish his plan, including a discussion on his revenue plan and his stability goals.
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